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Talk:Rationality and irrationality - Wikisocion

Talk:Rationality and irrationality

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[edit] Typical characteristics

Where does this stuff come from? Maybe we need to document the sources and reasons because I don't think we all agree. Let's go line by line:

"Typical characteristics of rationals (shizotymes) percieves things as what they should be, and may believe they are like that"

This sounds like idealism. Are you sure about that? So for example an LSE or LSI, because that person is a rational type, takes an idealistic view, whereas, say, an IEE or ILE is more grounded in reality and less idealistic?

"may speak more with complicated grammar, and stutters finding complicated words"

That sounds like LII. Can it really be extrapolated to all rational types? This is also complicated by the fact that intelligence and education may also affect the complexity of one's grammar.

"usually have stiff movements"

Equally true of ethical types? Maybe we have to clarify "stiff."

"may have less moods - usually they are more stiff and rigid, and last longer than irrationals, especially men"

Again, this seems to perhaps be related more to logical vs. ethical types. I don't think SLI, SLE, ILI, and ILEs are known to be particularly moody. And, on the other hand, EIE and ESE I think are moodier or less "steady" in their mood.

"[edit] Typical characteristics of irrationals (cyclotymes)"

Most of the comments one would make here would just be reflections of those I made above. However, I don't think it's necessarily true that irrational types make more grammatical mistakes than rational types.

Overall, it seems there's got to be a lot more official "classical" information on rat/irrat we could include. Individual observations are interesting and should be discussed, of course. But I don't get the feeling that this topic is giving a clear sense of what the main Socionics positions are. --Jonathan 23:12, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

you should read dichotomies' charts on Rick's website. Machintruc 05:20, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
Okay, true, some of the same ideas are there. However, the overall emphasis is different on his chart. He has a lot more on that chart than appears here, so the things that I might question don't stand out as much on his site. Also, his wording is a bit different, so some of my critiques wouldn't apply to his list. Do you agree with what he says there? If so, maybe we can align this list more with the gist of what he has there. Also, the idea that rationals have better grammar isn't from his list; it makes sense logically, but doesn't seem to work empirically. --Jonathan 14:39, 17 June 2007 (CDT)

I can't fully agree with a single "typical characteristic." --Admin 20:31, 28 November 2007 (GMT)

I have to disagree with this, under irrationals.: "May have more variable and flexible moods, especially women." First of all, I simply disagree with the first part. EIEs are moodier than SLIs, at least in my experience, for instance. Second, what is up with this "especially women" sexist tripe? Men aren't as moody as women? Whoever wrote that is deluded and male. --Slacker Mom 21:48, 18 January 2008 (GMT)

I'm working on improving the list. Contributions or feedback appreciated. --Admin 10:13, 19 January 2008 (GMT)
Sorry! Didn't mean to overreact - I'd had a bad interaction with a neighbor and was still upset by that. I guess that helps to prove the statement I complained about correct. --Slacker Mom 13:43, 19 January 2008 (GMT)
Haha. I'd been wanting to improve the list for a long time anyway. --Admin 21:11, 19 January 2008 (GMT)
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