Talk:Ethical sensing extrovert

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"The ESE equally expects others to let out their negative emotions (despair, anger, sadness) in periods of distress" eeh!!! you mean, LII's negative emotions ??? appearently, ESE's like angry LII's Machintruc 13:14, 12 May 2008 (BST)

I have started by copying the IM descriptions, but I will change them into specific ESE descriptions. Expat 13:46, 17 September 2007 (BST)

I'm going to overhaul this description, partly because I feel obligated to ensure that my dual is being described well, and partly because it's obvious that basing it on the element descriptions makes it end up bland and formulaic. There are so many more specific things we can say! I'll try to incorporate whatever is necessary from the current description, but if I leave anything out that you think is important, let me know. Thehotelambush 07:58, 1 October 2007 (BST)

Hm, I think I overreacted a little. I'll probably make some changes here and there, but nothing too drastic. Thehotelambush 02:02, 10 November 2007 (GMT)

[edit] Dual-seeking

"More specifically, ESEs are confident of their ability to spot and interpret the emotional stance of other people towards the ESE in given moments, but they are less confident of how all that they have observed in that area fits together."

I like the idea of describing the relationships between information elements, but this just doesn't make sense. Perhaps you have an example in mind? Thehotelambush 00:39, 29 September 2007 (BST)

What I had in mind was one of the sides of the ESE-LII duality, that is, the ESE narrates the events in their life, especially involving other people, expecting the LII to help the ESE makes sense of them in a Ti fashion. Expat 11:37, 29 September 2007 (BST)

I've never really seen anything specifically like that. What you're describing seems more like a coincidence than an essential connection between Ti and Fe. Thehotelambush 06:17, 1 October 2007 (BST)

Nearly every single ESE I've known well has this characteristic of narrating their daily events in detail, and expecting you to pay attention (and, presumably, make some comments). Perhaps my explanation isn't correct, but I doubt very much it's a coincidence. Expat 09:05, 1 October 2007 (BST)

I agree that that is typical ESFj behavior, but it doesn't have anything to do with Ti. Thehotelambush 17:32, 1 October 2007 (BST)

Ok, what does it have to do with, then, in your opinion? Expat 09:42, 2 October 2007 (BST)

If I may interject... I often have trouble making sense of my understanding of things. That LIIs are quite capable of speaking in my native language of Stupid without losing any information is just... ecstasy. As for a correlation between Fe/Ti... hmmm, I suppose it's just a general feeling of security that You Can Do It, and that you're on the right track. It must sound absurd, but having something to channel Fe towards is actually massively relieving. My 2 pi.

(P.S. sorry for spamming the changelogs, but I don't really feel concerned about whether my various Fe observations even fit together at all. They just sort of flow. I guess my point is, the structuring is more about NT things. THA, would you say being fed Fe gives you more confidence to put your head out there in the world? I think it works better to look at complementary elements as "if one, then the other" than "they're in the same world" (And later note: having my dual handle all the Ti means I can use it more/better on my own... and again, yeah, much more confidence in waving my Fe around like a lunatic!))Gulanzon 12:08, 29 March 2009 (BST)

Narrating daily events in detail is more a product of Si, I think. Thehotelambush 02:02, 10 November 2007 (GMT)

[edit] Si

What you deleted with the comment "that is not Si", is definitely a sign of preferring Si to Ni. Therefore I'm restoring it. If you don't agree, let's have a broader discussion. Expat 09:08, 1 October 2007 (BST)

(Based on the original text--) It is Si quadra values, yes, but as manifested through use of Se ("what needs to be done right now"). Sorry about removing it, I was planning on moving to the Se section, but I wasn't sure about how to rephrase it to make the connection more clear. Thehotelambush 17:32, 1 October 2007 (BST)

I meant it by contrast to Ni. ESE's use and focus of Fe is supported and steered by Si, that is, they are concerned with the immediate and concrete emotional atmosphere; EIE's is supported by Ni, so a longer-term and "visionary" one. That also affects their approach to work. That reference is meant as the focus on Si rather than Ni, which is what also accounts for the often observable trait, like LSEs, of being late, because they keep getting side-tracked - or allowing themselves to be side-tracked - by "just one more thing" that has to be done now. Expat 19:01, 1 October 2007 (BST)

If it's more about subdued Ni (which I think it is), then it should be moved to the Ni section. But "doing things" in general can't really be attributed to an introverted element (although strong sensing in general is of course a part of it). Action can be taken in service of Si, of course, but that would require further explanation. It's mainly the wording that's throwing me off. Thehotelambush 02:02, 10 November 2007 (GMT)